Soma Rising

What If Pain Is Your Body Remembering What Your Mind Forgot: A Conversation with Jason Marvin

• Tabitha MacDonald • Episode 64

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What if persistent pain is your body remembering what your mind forgot? We sit down with physical therapist and intuitive practitioner Jason Marvin to trace his journey from the high-volume “mill” model to a grounded, whole-person practice where structure, energy, emotion, and spirit work together. Jason shares the health crash that forced him to rethink everything—mysterious weight loss, headaches, and exhaustion that standard tests couldn’t explain—and the simple question that changed his path: are you carrying other people’s stuff?

We dive into energetic responsibility for both clients and clinicians: how to sense your boundaries, avoid merging, and keep sessions from draining your life force. Jason breaks down somatoemotional release and multi-hand work, explaining why the body often lets go of physical layers before emotion because safety comes first. He walks through a clear way to find the true primary driver of pain—testing structure, energy, mental patterns, and emotion—so treatment finally sticks instead of looping back.

If you’re a practitioner, you’ll learn to let healing flow through you rather than from you, protecting your health and amplifying results. If you’re a patient, you’ll gain tools to ground, clear, and call your energy back so your body can finally heal. Listen, share with a friend who needs a reframe, and subscribe for more conversations that reconnect you to your own center.

This is Soma Rising: Conversations for a Conscious Future —where health, wealth, love, and purpose flow together on the Golden Path of alignment.  Learn more at somatribe.org

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Tabitha MacDonald is an Intuitive Coach and Bodyworker committed to helping people overcome pain fast so they can experience the love, success, freedom, and fulfillment they truly desire.

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SPEAKER_04:

Hello and welcome. I'm very excited on today's session of the Soma Flow podcast. I have a very special guest with me. His name is Jason Marvin, a physical therapist for 25 years who believes true healing happens when we care for the whole person: body, mind, emotions, and soul. His passion is helping people rise into their full potential and experience a vibrant health from the inside out. Thank you, Jason, for joining me today. I'm so happy to have you here.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. Thank you for inviting me. And you know, it's been a while. We actually were, I think back the last time we actually met. We're like, we should do a podcast. Like, okay.

SPEAKER_04:

That was like two years ago.

SPEAKER_01:

I know. So Jason and I made this coaching program.

SPEAKER_04:

And it was, I think we met on the last night of the five-day. That must have been in 2022.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, I think the first time. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah. And we were in this five-day consciousness training for the coaching program that we both got certified in. And um he's a body-based practitioner. I'm a body-based practitioner. And it's a unique thing to be a body-based practitioner in the world of coaching and consciousness because they'll usually say, like, oh, we don't need that. And everything inside of me is like, you're wrong. Like, actually, don't tell me I'm less than you. Like, I'm just not like the fighter in me is always like, no, you just don't understand the benefits. So you say it's not necessary. But um, so that's how Jason and I met was the last day. I think we were the only two body-based practitioners there, if I recall.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, it's it's quite an interesting interesting um dynamic, to be in a place of coaching and then realize that everybody else needs this stuff, like not just coaching, but bodywork too, at the same time and the meshing of it all together.

SPEAKER_04:

So oh, right. Yeah. It was so inner that was an interesting journey for me. We could talk about it on another episode. Yeah. But it was when it was coaching, and I was like, wait a minute, I've been doing this for 25 years. I just don't charge as much as you. Like it was like, I've been giving people wellness strategies since I started this career. So it was just a funny realization. But our second encounter was at an intuition training for five days, and we had a group together, and I'm just gonna tell this story because it was really funny. And we were doing intuitive readings for people, and this one man had a question about his love life. And Jason and I had the same vision, and we saw the same woman in this man's field. And what was that like for you? Because that was kind of a fun reading.

SPEAKER_01:

I mean, uh Yeah, no, it was pretty it was pretty wild, you know, just the ping ponging off of one another. Like, you see this? Yeah, I see that too. Yeah, this is what's gonna happen. This is what she looks like, this is what she's like.

SPEAKER_04:

And you know what? Okay, so Jason doesn't know this, but he emailed me not that long after, I think it was like a year later, and he goes, You guys were 100% accurate. I met that exact woman and it unfolded exactly as you thought it would. And it's not because we set the you know thing in there, the lesson we told him he needed to learn was exactly what he learned. And he goes, That was exactly what I needed to learn. And it was amazing the accuracy, especially when you get too intuitive during a reading from someone, anyways.

SPEAKER_01:

Very powerful. That's that's so amazing.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah. So it was kind of it was very cool because you don't always get feedback from people to go, oh yeah, that reading was like so accurate. And um, thank you. So I don't know that you know, we don't always get that as practitioners. So no, we don't. Yeah. Um yeah, and so um this conversation that we're gonna have today is a little bit about Jason's journey because he's fascinating and I'm so grateful to consider him a friend. And he helped me um through some coaching last year that was probably the best coaching I've ever had. And I mean that from the bottom of my heart. And um, he helped me get to some parts of myself that just were trapped in in pain and in a victim consciousness that aren't there anymore. So I'm so grateful for Jason and the work that he does in the world.

SPEAKER_01:

So um I appreciate that. Very sweet of you to say.

SPEAKER_04:

So I love that you're kind of uh um that you're not kind of, but you went from super science to to woo, and now you do both. And I I would love to hear a little bit about your journey.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04:

How it happened?

unknown:

Wow.

SPEAKER_01:

Well, it it was quite it's quite fascinating, actually. You know, thinking about my journey back then, coming out of school, you know, I'm gung ho. I'm like, I want to help people. This is awesome. And I'm very sports-related and all that kind of stuff. And I started working at a clinic originally that was sports medicine. No, it was just a mill. Here, give some exercises, give some exercises.

SPEAKER_04:

Oh my god, can we talk about that for just a minute? Like the mill mentality drives me insane. Okay, we have to do another podcast on that. I'm not gonna impress it, but yeah, okay, sorry.

SPEAKER_01:

I'm like, all right, um, helping no, that's that's that's not part of it. We just we just wanted to get a bunch of people in here to make money.

SPEAKER_03:

Drive me nuts.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, but I I really kind of realized that I was not helping people that way. So I ended up getting in contact with one of my colleagues that I went to school with, and he was working for an individual. And basically, they were teaching osteopathy um principles. Okay. We were a physical therapist, but we can still learn all those types of techniques and all that kind of stuff. So so yeah, I started really delving into that and just really understanding how to treat the body as itself, but from a physical level.

SPEAKER_04:

And hands-on approaches.

SPEAKER_01:

Oh, what's that?

SPEAKER_04:

So more hands-on.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, it's it was all hands-on, and you know, there were exercises in there, but only it's very, very specific to what you were trying to accomplish within the body, right? Not just this random, hey, here's these 10 exercises that they we give you, give everybody, right?

SPEAKER_03:

Right.

SPEAKER_01:

No, no, no. It's very, very specific, you know, because you're treating this one person. I went from the mill to treating two people an hour. At least I had person, some one person for a half hour say, okay, which was really beneficial, you know, when you're first starting to learn and all that kind of stuff. But I think the biggest thing that I began to realize throughout this whole thing while I was doing it, um, is the more you're in contact with people, you start to unknown to us sometimes and to me at the time, was this big energetic exchange going on?

SPEAKER_03:

Yes.

SPEAKER_01:

Yes.

SPEAKER_03:

It's huge.

SPEAKER_01:

And it's huge. And you know, I had a lot of really, really, really good experiences with with individuals just for just in that half an hour. It was it was amazing. I really started to understand that hey, I can really help people when we start to really focus on the whole person in general. Yes, I was still doing it from a structural standpoint at that point in my life, um, which was amazing, but at the same time, because you're delving into fascia and all that kind of stuff, sometimes people have a somat emotional release. I'm like, oh what the hell's all this? This is really weird. Like, what's going on?

SPEAKER_04:

Didn't you train you in physical therapy school about that? Oh, wow.

SPEAKER_01:

Nothing about that. No, seriously, at least at the at that time. See, that was 25 years ago, you know. So things have obviously changed at this point, and I hope to god that they're bringing that kind of stuff in at this point.

SPEAKER_04:

I hope so, because that's one of the foundations in Massage School.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, but well, the thing is, we we weren't just in PT school, they're not just training you about fashion, they're training, they're doing everything. So it's like, hey, how can we like give the biggest bang for the buck? And that's more of a post-grad thing. The emotional stuff. I think that's what they really, you know, they really kind of think about, you know. So, and that that's fine, that's just how it is. But trying to get you through a state board exam, that's like if they're mean focus. But okay, I think you know, starting to treat about two hours or um two years, I should say, into doing PT with people, um, I started having my own like issues, like run, really run down, headaches, you know, gut stuff, digestive stuff, losing weight unexpectedly, and going, what is going on with me? Here I am, an athlete, competitive athlete doing stuff, you know, really, really pushing my body all the time, eating you know, thousands of calories a day, and I'm just losing weight, like not just a couple pounds. We're talking like five, ten, it just kept going, 15 pounds.

SPEAKER_04:

Just there's a lot of people listening right now wanting to know the secret to losing weight like that.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, the opposite. This is not the way to do it.

SPEAKER_04:

Mine just kept going up and up and up.

SPEAKER_01:

So yeah, this is not the way to do it. But and you know, here I am going, oh my god, I didn't have freaking cancer or something, you know. It's like that's one of the hallmark signs, is like you're losing weight unexpectedly, you're having like night pain or just weird stuff, right? It's hallmark sign of cancer type stuff. So it's like, of course, the brain's like going through like, oh my god, oh my god, oh my god. You know, so I go to the doctor, run a bunch of tests. Of course, there's nothing wrong with you, nothing wrong with you. They can't find anything, which is like okay.

SPEAKER_04:

So yeah, I really have an experience to have.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, it's like and I knew there was something, there was something else going on, you know. Yeah, I had I knew I wasn't under a bunch of stress, um, just with work stuff, getting out in the career, all that stuff. I was, you know, dating an individual at the time. It was kind of crazy and all that stuff.

SPEAKER_04:

Anyhow, but oh, that's actually important. We are gonna talk about that later.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, yeah. It's it's it it is, it is, it is important, but the number one cause of disease crazy relationship partners. Yeah, totally so, but yeah, I I really started to feel that it wasn't just these other things that I had been doing, you know, I've been dealing with all that stuff just fine. It's like my resiliency was doing good. I was able to come back and deal with stuff and bounce back, no problem. And then as soon as I got into the the career of doing this within a couple years, it was like I crashed. Like something, it was like what tipped me over the edge. You know, the cup is still full, but now it's the body can't adapt anymore.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

And and then I started to realize like, like I said, obviously, there's something wrong. So I um I actually had a nurse practitioner ask me about that. Like, what do you do for a living? I'm like, oh physical therapist. She's like, hmm. So I I wonder if you ever thought about your taking on emotion.

SPEAKER_04:

Wow. A nurse practitioner asked you that. Was she in the traditional scope of of work or was she more she was in traditional medicine, but I think she was just intuitive.

SPEAKER_01:

I think she at the time she was able to pick up on my energy and notice what was going on. So I think she, you know, just brought it to my attention that way. And it's like I had never even thought about that kind of stuff because we hadn't had any training in that kind of stuff. So I just kind of delve into it from there. But, you know, stepping back a little bit and kind of thinking about this as a whole, um, knowing what I started to learn and understand, okay, well, maybe there's some kind of energetic change going on. Obviously, we're we're all energetic beings and we, you know, we're working with our hands, very cohesive with water molecules and everything. We're we're taking on this stuff, right? We can if we don't protect ourselves. But when I started to look back though, just hindsight as a child, super, super like emotional. Like, and when I started to to realize where I was at now versus way back then, how things played out kind of in my life, and I began to realize that and had thought processes around it. I wonder if I've been carrying things for other people my entire life, not just this lifetime, but many lifetimes and and the genetic component from my own you know genealogy and all that kind of stuff coming through epigenetics and what well answered nine, right? Well I'm not on the Enneagram, right?

SPEAKER_04:

Are you a nine?

SPEAKER_01:

I thought it was more of a nine, but I'm actually You're oh, that makes so much sense.

SPEAKER_04:

I was picking up a five yesterday, and I was like, are we sure you're a nine? Because yeah, everything that you said, I was like, I think you're a a five, like, or you're a nine with like living in their five, but okay, okay, okay.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I originally I think I was a nine where I was very people pleasing and just the nobody, the the day, all that kind of stuff, right? And um, but but yeah, when I really get deep down into I'm a definitely number five. Um go away. I don't want to be with you. I want to retreat back here. I just do my own thing.

SPEAKER_04:

Oh my god, I love fives. I'm a five when I'm in my good space. I'm a five. Well, I'm a seven, but like when I'm in my like high side, I'm a five, so I get them, and I'm like, people come in and they'll say they're autistic. I'm like, are you sure you're not just a five? Like that's nice thing. That's they get called weird things. Like that's like yeah, totally but um oh, that makes so much sense. Okay, I love it.

SPEAKER_01:

Well, yeah, so when I when I start to think about that kind of stuff, it's like, oh my god, you know, I've been really holding things all my life, but so let's speed up to where you know going into peak ticketing and all that kind of stuff and start to realize this, and it's like the aspects of my body were really shutting down because it's like how how much can we put into the glass? It's going to get full at some point, and because the body is so adaptive, it's made to adapt and it's it needs to be that way, right? Um, you know, it's all about trying to keep homeostasis, keep a center line the best that we can. Okay. But if we start to look at it from an energetic perspective, and if we go down that road, it's like when you get things that are blocked in your system and you don't have energetic flow through your body for whatever reason, right? Whether it's yours, whether it's somebody else's, it doesn't matter. Um, things just start to shut down. Like my body was literally shutting down. And it was it was a scary thing, you know. I was like, oh my god, I'm like, here I am just getting into my career, and I have effing cancer. It's like, what are you talking about?

SPEAKER_00:

Or something else.

SPEAKER_01:

I didn't know what it was, but yeah, it was really scary. And so, but the fact that they couldn't find anything, which is okay, good, I don't have that, perfect. Now what? Yeah, but but this realization of really delving delving into it and diving into myself as a quote unquote empath.

SPEAKER_04:

The curse of the empath, yes.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, the curse of the empath, but it's I had to begin to learn about being energetically responsible, is what I like to say and how I call it. It's this responsibility to self, number one, okay, and responsibility to to others too, as well, at the same time. So you're I'm working on people, I don't want to sit there and be like giving them all anything that I'm dealing with, right? Energetically, yeah. I don't want to be like, here, I take all that. No, that's not their job. You're coming here to actually help help for me to help you.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

So, and at the same time, I don't want to take on their stuff. No, right, and and that's where the energetic, the responsible comes into play. So um, but this this energetic exchange is really important to understand.

SPEAKER_04:

Uh I think it's more important in a conversation we should be having now more than ever, because I think that a lot of skilled healthcare practitioners get sick because of this very reason that there's a very large lack of understanding about the exchange of energy, taking on other people's ick is kind of what I call it. Like I I work with people in trauma all the time, and the only reason I can hold space for them on their journey is because I cleanse it from my system and I don't take it home with me anymore. But at the point, I was over a hundred pounds over 130 pounds overweight when I was doing this work because uh you look amazing, by the way. Oh, thank you. Thank you for helping me last year because you definitely got me through the the first three to six months of on my journey. I'm super close to the end goal now. So um, that's a thank you to you.

unknown:

Yeah, so you're very welcome.

SPEAKER_01:

Um let me say something on that just real quick that you were saying, but taking on and then you know, take it home, whatever. But so in my experience, what I would notice is that because I was ambitious to me taking on energy, is that the fatigue thing? So I could there'd be days that I'd be like, oh yeah, I can see, you know, three, four, five, six people, whatever, no problem. And other days I'm seeing two and I'm exhausted. Like, what okay, what happened? Like, what's the difference between that this other day and this day? So, this I think is a really big like telltale sign of when people are having energetic exchange problems in a sense of they're not being responsible and they're taking it on and it's beginning to build up. So I hear this a lot from colleagues of mine, especially new practitioners that come in. Um, that I've been, you know, I have colleagues that are in osteopathic school that I went through to as well. And and they're starting to treat more. And all of a sudden they're like, oh my gosh, I only saw a couple of people today. I'm totally wiped out. I'm like, oh, okay. And I start talking about it. And lo and behold, this is what's happening for them. They're taking on energy because they're not, they're not understanding their own energetic first number one, and what that really means, and how to ground, how to clear, all that kind of stuff, and and be this just independent. I like to say independent of that and that other person. It's like you are you, I am me, and we are separate. So we have this energetic exchange, but we don't need to mesh together, right? That was yeah, dance around bubbles, that's fine, but we don't need to mesh and like take your stuff, you take my no no, that's not what we're gonna I'm gonna play that game.

SPEAKER_04:

Do you remember that exercise we did at the five day? And it was where we were playing with energy and what it felt like. And I used to be a raging codependent. I'll just say I didn't even know my energy field was like just codependent. And I think when you have codependent strategies, like you don't necessarily know how to do that because it's you just foreign to you. And when we when we were in that five day, we we have this exercise where we put the functional bubbles next to each other, and it's like to train you how to hold healthy energy next to another human being without taking theirs, but then you practice and you play and you have like one's the big spoon and the other one's the little spoon. And um, it's such a great way of learning that skill. And um, I think we should do a workshop on it, but um also like I can you talk about that more for people who don't understand what that means? Because I think that when you and I talk about two functional bubbles sitting next to each other where I can like bump up next to your energy, I can read it, but I'm not getting it into my field. How does that feel for for you? Like if you had to describe it, I know this is a really hard question because I don't know that I know how to describe it, but um, I do this exercise with my clients so they understand the difference. Because I can always feel someone who has an open energy field. And I'm always like, whoop, let me put your functional bubble on you first because I don't want your field leaking out all over the room. And then I all like kind of give them a functional bubble. Um, so and then they'll be like, Well, that's strange. I feel really good. What did you just do? And I'm like, Oh, I just contained your energy around you. And um I don't think that I thought about it until you just mentioned I forgot that I did that. But how do you do explain that to someone? And when is our workshop? Because that's coming.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, I I think it's really an amazing thing to understand. Okay, so um, for me, you know, I I don't think I'm I'm quite doing what you're doing there. I think I probably should be a good thing. Um, I always protect myself, but that's a good idea. I never really thought about just you know setting them up for themselves. But um, for me, what I really feel, and everybody's different, you know, everyone's had you know, it depends on where their energy is at, you know. If it's all over the place, it's like I feel them when they're in the parking lot before they even come like, oh boy, this is gonna be a big one. Um, so yeah, and it's it's just this place, you know. So if I think about my own energetic field, my energetic bubble, what do you want to call it? Okay. So when I'm the client's in my room, I really tap into that. I'm just feeling I'm like up against this, is kind of how I do it. I'm up against my own and I'm sending out my own little feelers into the into the room. And I'm feeling it's kind of there, where their space is, okay, and what's going on with it in general. And for me, because I'm I tend to be more um clairsentient as a primary, so I think it's because of the bodywork and all that kind of stuff too, but um, so and then not just clairsentient empathic, but clairsentient like feeling, like sensation-wise. So I I'll pick up on both of those pretty kind of primarily first with people. And it's like, okay, what what is their view?

SPEAKER_04:

Oh um, let's let's yeah, go ahead. Let's talk about our six friends, the Claire's. Um, clairsentient is that like knowing, knowing like a feel a felt sense um in your body. A lot of body workers are clairsentient because we feel the other person's pain in our body, and so we don't always know that it's not ours. It's really the way that our body is communicating through an intuitive channel what we're picking up from the other person. Is that is that how you would describe it?

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, yeah, definitely. And there's there's aspects of it like feeling pain in the body is one thing, but then feeling emotion. Yeah, there's two different aspects of it, you know. So that's why I kind of teeter in that whole realm, you know, really quickly as a primary. Um, yeah. And the other clear is cognizance, like you have a knowing, you have it hearing, you have a visual uh for clairvoyance, um, those those types. So it's all the part of the intuitive intuition, you know, how the the information comes into us. Everybody has this ability. Um, it's just got to figure out what works the best for you and all that kind of stuff.

SPEAKER_04:

So all of them because they're all great tools.

SPEAKER_01:

They're all great tools and they bounce all around. So, but I think as a primary, that's where I tend to resonate from. And then it goes, it kind of goes from a a um sensing uh sensing to a feeling to a knowing is that that's the kind of the blip for me, you know. So um, but anyhow, but yeah, it's so that's really what I practice with with um with my clients in general, is to knowing and understanding that it's like if I am here's my bubble, and then I just kind of merge up against them a little bit, or just what does the room feel like with them in it? And then I get a little closer to them, and so they're here's their bubble, here's their bubble, and I kind of come in a little closer. What does it feel like to be next to them? Okay, and then I'm still me, but we can merge into them just slightly, okay. So we overlap the two circles, okay, and then we start to still be me and feel what it feels like to be in their field, and then you start picking up all these different uh types of information that that comes from people, so but this is just a way of knowing what's going on for the individual. But the thing is, is that when we go into their field completely, and then we I would say lose ourselves completely, and we stay there, yeah, and we stay there, and then all of a sudden we we pull all their stuff with us, and it's like that's not that's not what we want to do. And this is when it becomes a problem when we're doing this over and over and over and over and over again, and we're not clearing ourselves out, um, and understanding that we that our energy is getting blocked, so it's like the tank is getting fuller and fuller and fuller and fuller and fuller, and the next thing we know, there's we're having crazy symptoms. So body pain has been a huge thing for myself um ever since I was a kid.

SPEAKER_04:

Because you need a good massage therapist, Jason.

SPEAKER_01:

Exactly. Everybody needs a good massage therapist, exactly. And you know, it was yes, I was a very, you know, rambunctious child, a very um high-end um, you know, sports, sports, and just you know, rough and tough and tumble, always that kind of stuff, you know.

SPEAKER_04:

Oh, I thought you were gonna say a high-end terror.

SPEAKER_01:

I was like, No, no, you know, it's I loved, I love BMX biking, I love snow skiing, always sports, right? But honestly, for me, I really think it was a place of my system was really trying to feel. So I may back up. I, you know, not to get into family dynamics too much, but I think it is. Yeah, it's a part of it, right? So it's like my family, my mom specifically, grew up in a family was like you probably heard the saying, it's like stop crying, or I'll give you something to cry about.

SPEAKER_04:

So what year were you born in, though?

SPEAKER_01:

71.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah, that's the Gen X. That's how we were raised.

SPEAKER_00:

Totally, totally. It's like, shut up and just don't bother me. Get back outside. Exactly. Go outside.

SPEAKER_04:

I know, watch general hospital, like so, yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

You know, as a very sensitive little boy, that was that was tough. It's like at times it was accepted and other times it wasn't. So, what did I do with the times that it wasn't accepted? You stuff it, and it's like you keep bottling it up, pushing it down, pushing it down. And then all of a sudden it's like, why is my body hurting all the time? So, yes, I'm doing physical things, but it's like the physical tweaks and turns in my body that may happen if I fall down doing things, but then you put the emotion and that energetic walking on top of it, and then all of a sudden, things can't adapt anymore. Yeah, and then you start having pain. Your nervous system starts talking to you when you're so far from your midline that it's stressing it, so then it starts firing off, and then you have sort of all kinds of pain all the time. So I remember my stepdad always giving me a hard time because I had back pain all the time. But as a kid, and he was like, and I he's like, Oh, I can't run that weed eater, you know, because it's back pain. And it's like, it's like, yeah, it hurts. It's like my back is jacked up, you know.

SPEAKER_03:

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_01:

It was all lumbar support. I'm gonna start thinking about lumbar support, either support, family support, emotional support was not being happened, happening for me. You know, I had a uh a pops, my dad, that was not around very much, and as a father figure, you know, they're there to you know show you how much um worth you have, so to speak. Acknowledge you. And so he wasn't really around. Well, I had that aspect too. All these different things, right? Going on. So that is the journey, but that's in its story, but you know, it's making me who I am. My my sensitivity is because of all that, which I love now, but I just know how to work with it now. So it's it's really what's taking me into you know what I do, and you know, coming back to you know, going into PT and all that kind of stuff and realizing this is this is an issue, not just for me, but for all practitioners, and you know, it needs to be addressed. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_04:

And I don't think we talked about it. I mean, I don't know.

SPEAKER_01:

It doesn't get talked about as much. It's I think it's really starting to be talked about more. Um, as I have talked to other people in this industry that have gone through after me, um, you know, like maybe like five to ten years after I graduated from PD school. And it seems that they were starting to bring in more things, absolutely, which which was good. So it's it's moving, but it's slow, you know, it's just part of the process and how it has to happen and and what's considered acceptable and as far as are we, you know, doing therapy, like talk therapy, whatever, you know, and they didn't really think that was it needed to be like separate for whatever reason, you know, and you know it's so I love that you brought that up because I got certified in coaching because I knew it shouldn't be separate anymore.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah, and I just knew that because when I was working on people, I might be the only person they came to see for help. And I thought I can either get really responsible and get trained in trauma and coaching and the things that will be able to help me help them because I'm not gonna stop someone in their moment if I'm the only person they're gonna see. And they might have a a memory about, you know, an assault or something that's actually the block of the pain. I didn't want that to be like, oh, here, maybe you should go get some help. I I was like, I want to have the skills to be able to help them in an ethical and integrous way. Um so that, you know, if I was the only person that they ever came to for help, that that I would be able to and equipped with the right skill set to do that. Not from opinion, like I've heard a lot of therapists give their opinions about what they should do, but from that like high level of training and trauma and understanding uh intuition and the higher self path and things, you know, things such as that. So that was I think that I I don't know. I think in anytime you're working with a human body, you should one kind of get that extra training so that you understand you know if you are the only person that they see that you have at least some frame of helping them further. Because we can do better in that I think as a as a as a healthcare culture.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah absolutely um yeah it and it's you know where it kind of took me into obviously was doing my own work um yeah and what we call SCR or somatemotional release traumas. Did you do Peter Levine's training or no you didn't barely I just did just went through Baral Institute um and did some of their classes at it's it's what they kind of call it SER but it's like cranial something they call it cranial work. But so there's a lot of it's not like traditional osteopathic cranial um work where you're you know moving there is some bone work you know that they do but it's a lot of emotional so is that like the bars not like drinking bars but like is it like bars where you're like scanning the cranium for energetic imprints of trauma on the cranium okay I just saw a class online it's gonna look at but yeah no they're doing a lot of they do a lot of mouthwork um around this and they do I think the first class they kind of start off with just doing this um it's like a 10-step protocol is kind of where they do um where they're just like moving through the body and they they're just basically working like um transitional zones and diaphragms and all that kind of stuff just balancing the system out um but then they start they go into really work of dialoguing with the body um which was really amazing you know to um when you're starting to get certain things you're getting intuitive hits maybe or um you know whatever's going on for the person where you're working with them you start just having a dialogue with the individual a little bit so they they really bring that in so it's just this aspect of starting to work in the emotional realm with for people. So the biggest thing though is when I went through this is that because it's class there's a lot of people there they start doing multi-hand work meaning multiple practitioners on one person. And it's so powerful because your body can't escape it's like it's like it's like it can't it can it but it's really what makes people pop if if that makes sense and in the way of like they they can't get around you know because typically when you're just one person on another person that if you're not a skilled really skilled practitioner to to feel what's happening in the body and it's trying to get away from the thing you're working on because it doesn't feel safe or whatever reason. So it's um when you have multiple hands on somebody like literally if there's four four people that's eight hands on one body all at one time it's like it can't escape. So what happens is it brings up the emotion of whatever is going on to process it out. So I was able to go through that and really what actually came out was fascinating for me because it it was emotional but it was primarily um physical trauma at first that's what came out at first was my physical trauma because I had had so many um physical accidents because I was I was a water skier at you know 10 11 12 but learning how to barefoot water ski stepping off a seat and flipping across the water like multi-vehicle car accidents how I liken that to and at at 12 and it's like just torque my body in so many different directions right yeah so and then falling on my head many times just you know outride my bike or whatever it's like so many concussions are probably undiagnosed all these different things but what was coming out was like my body was going literally back through these motions and like arching and twisting and just all kinds of stuff and it's like to the point of where I felt like my body can't go there but it wants to go there but it's like feels like it's gonna snap because it's like so much motion but it was just trying to go back through these things so that it could actually let it go and release it. And then after the process of doing some of the physical stuff then like more of the emotion could come out it had to like you know the body's different it's very interesting that way it's doesn't how we think one thing is going to come out first no that's not always the case like oh wait that's the thing that was there maybe first or primary it should come out for no it's gonna choose whatever whatever feels safe enough to let let go of that's what it's gonna come out. So for me being emotional in front of other people was at that time was not safe. So it chose the physical thing. Yeah this is how I view it. Yeah yeah and so that what came out but as I started to go through this and really understand like oh my gosh this is this is what I've been holding for like all my life you know this this different aspect of the trauma emotion okay the energetic stuff and as soon as I kind of went through that series of classes my my body felt so different my my mind was different my just overall how I look at things was different it everything about myself my mental aspect my energetic aspect my my emotional aspect my physical aspect everything started changing and it that was like okay I I'm a believer now you know it's like once I had I had to kind of go through it myself you know to really feel it but yeah then then that was that's what kind of started it all off you know it's like once I I kind of was feeling it from the beginning like there was a problem doctors did their stuff no problems they couldn't find anything okay that's not that but it's something else and then I had this I'm like oh my gosh now that's really actually getting me to shift in different ways that I've never been able to shift before so what's going on for now all my clients it's like okay so how do I protect myself not taking on uh the energy so it just began to be um a learning you know a learning curve obviously you got to go through you got to educate yourself on it and understand what it's all about but like you I went through the coaching to stuff too as well because I realized that you know I need to build to be coaching people and it and they can't be separate because if we're exchanging energies while you're working on somebody you're gonna you know if if you're in tune with your intuition you're gonna be getting things they're coming through that it's like that's being housed whether it's in a nerve an artery the vein an organ tissue cranial whatever it's gonna it's there because as we know there's a lovely book called Body Keeps a score. You know it's just it has the memory right so and it's been a huge um revelation I would say now there's a lot of in the Baral Institute background they have the um this is what they would call cranial work okay which is they do hands-on but it's process work while they're working in the tissue and stuff like that yeah so that that is one aspect but um you know I didn't at first I didn't really care for that as much you know at the time and and that was fine you know so because I think it was more on the physical so yeah I had to go my own route through it and I think it's very similar what I do now but on another level even so yeah I'm gonna bring in uh something else here that in osteopathic care we look at levels so when I say levels I'm talking about stuff I'm on a structure is it pure pure structure that's the issue is it fluid is it energetic or is it there is an emotional on that one piece.

SPEAKER_04:

So you what level is it the primary you know that we have to deal with I think that's important if we really want to be exceptional practitioners like to be able to connect in and and get the information like is this a spiritual thing is this mental is it emotional like and then if it's in the body what's the root cause and what's the one thing I can tell them that they need to start incorporating into their daily lives so that they can start making a a profound shift.

SPEAKER_01:

So yeah absolutely if we don't tackle it from that point what we see you mean else as practitioners you will see if you pay attention that people keep coming back with the same complaint. Yeah and it doesn't matter if you do not address the primary root cause of what's going on they will keep coming back. It may not be right away but it'll come back and it'll be the same loop system coming back coming back coming back because you haven't gotten to the point. So if I've got a liver in my hand and I'm like okay yeah structurally it's a met it like this position is all out of crazy whack because they were in a car accident. Okay great that's fine. However this thing doesn't have any vitality because their energetic system is clear over there. Because when they got hit from this side they pushed everything out. So we got to address that piece back in because it's it's one of the things you got to get the primary first. So say like so how I how I really work with people to understand this is is going into when I start to feel on something like I'm testing all these different levels. Okay I'm going down just doing structural assessment okay good you have this this this other complaints good okay um then within that that primary area that I find is structurally then I say okay looking at that that's great now let's let's look at the energetic system what's going on there and then I say okay this is kind of the prime area how does that energetic system affect this structural thing yeah is it you know is this energetic thing being dominant to the structure or is the structure being dominant to that so I use just a simple inhibition testing you know um basically it's like a way of giving support to that area of the body or that's level to see what happens in the other ones if I give support to the energetic does the does the structure shift does it allow it to also start to change and come and come back to neutrality or or vice versa. So I'm testing primary that way and so there's that system then there's the mental aspects of what's going on for them and there's an emotional fact and emotional I'm testing all these things to find like what's really the dominating thing you know that I can do the biggest bang for the buck right now for this individual okay what do they need to know so this is really where I come to educating people on this they may not have any idea about this kind of stuff which is pretty much how it is for most people that's why they're coming they they think they have this problem but they but they really have this problem. They really have an ancestor who's draining their energy like yeah yeah exactly exactly and you know it's it's it's very common it's just how it is so especially when it's an energetic thing. So I'm gonna give you just a couple examples of some of my clients if that's okay. Yes yeah no this is great just things I've experienced you know and so so say like I've had many people that all of a sudden they've got their inner their energetic bubble around them is like say it's symmetrical it's kind of like just normal about three foot around no problem right that's ideal. Then all of a sudden and I'm feeling it's like they've got this piece that's like shifted way out over to one side right left back what doesn't matter what it is and then you can explain what that means to someone who doesn't understand energy because um I think that that's an important thing to know when your energy is shifted outside of you.

SPEAKER_04:

And um kind of like why what that means like because you can like you can use me as an example because you helped call all my energy back when we worked so you could always use me as a reference point from the work that we did. But like when you think about when your energy is like I think of the movie like Doctor Strange when she pushes on him and is like consciousness separates from his body like and like you can still blow out it's kind of like that if you had to like explain it to someone who has no clue what we're talking about. Because not everyone sees energy the way that we do just because they're not like trained in it yet. So what does that mean almost like when their energy is outside of them or like what would that cause what would cause that?

SPEAKER_01:

Well let's step back for a second just think about heart being the battery of the of the body right it's like the energizing piece. So it gives off the electromagnetic field already around us right that's science that's a straight up fact. So um just think about this though that everything around you has an energy if you think about that standpoint. So it's no different than your heart is different than this. It's the same same thing. Okay. So that thing's that phone's got an energy that's why they tell you don't put this thing more than 30 inches next to you because shit's gonna give you cancer that's in the small print yeah they don't put that on the warning label no no no no no that's in the small print right at the bottom so but we have this this energetic aspect of us okay it's like the that that battery that's running and and keeps us cohesive so to speak okay we have different what we call chakra systems in the body that are just areas of of energy that gets housed in it. Okay and those areas have different roles so to speak as far as intuition or using our power or sexuality all that kind of stuff. But anyhow that's just our our aspect of energy so when it comes to being outside of the way I see things a couple couple of fold if somebody has been in trauma like a physical trauma in osteopathy be called a force in print literally the force of that thing that happens whether you fall on the ground whether you're in a car and you get hit from the car and so that force goes through you okay and it will literally shift things your body itself organs within your body and that energetic field that is ours okay can get shifted that's just from a physical trauma but it's say if you have an emotional trauma an aspect that you for whatever reason or didn't feel safe and it feels scary to be there it will also move outside of your body okay which you've experienced that for yourself I've experienced that for myself um we have our personalities okay we all have them when they don't feel safe they just literally disintegrate from our the whole the they're not copacetic and and getting along with each other. All the kids aren't playing nice on the playground I call them the itty bitty shitty committee I love it I love it so they get disintegrated so that energetic part of you is outside of you now and it feels safe out there because inside it does not feel safe anymore. So it it's just an aspect of of ourself that has like I was coming back doesn't feel safe it just moves outside. So it's either safe is usually why though yeah so it's outside and and that could be for like I said many different reasons. It could be because A maybe you're scared about moving forward with something so maybe that's showing up as it's over here to the right okay maybe my masculine drive I gotta go well do something but I don't feel comfortable doing it. So and it's part that I really need to move forward in for multiple patients of mine for a reason suddenly I become a a a uh relationship coach lately.

SPEAKER_04:

Oh my God because that is the root of pain don't let don't get me started on it I'm gonna we're gonna do a separate episode on it.

SPEAKER_00:

They come in for all this but it goes right down to that point.

SPEAKER_04:

It's always down to like loneliness, biting narcissistic abuse recovery I mean it's always like the root cause of most pain is relationship trauma.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah yeah because we want to be loved and seen by everybody you know that's how it is and somehow it doesn't come in that way.

SPEAKER_04:

It's our it's our it's our natural human nature to want to be loved and to love someone in return and to find partnership and build a life with someone like that that's that is our human nature.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah totally so yeah it's been it's been interesting to see people going through this type of thing right now and where their energy is getting shifted. You know to see it actually go to an aspect that is feminine posterior and behind which is it tends to be more past related stuff we start to tap into things and they're like yeah I I've got this issue and I I'm not allowed to you know I feel like I'm not allowed to speak my truth around certain things especially around men that I have to kind of be subservient like oh that's interesting because I'm seeing this back to like literally like 10 generations back this is what happened for your generations. So you've been carrying this all this time through this you know these lifetimes and and generations but but it's also happening to you now. So but that's where it shows up so then all of a sudden maybe it's you know it's something on the the masculine side of that wanting to move forward. So it's like all these different things but but what happens is that when I hone in on that and then I feel the structural I could have them standing and say hey you you feel your body having a hard time moving with this you're like yeah yeah no problem I totally feel that well I say you know well I'm gonna support this little piece over here and I want you to tell me what your body does. And so I support it and all of a sudden their body shifts and allows them to start moving again. And they're like well what did you just do? I said I supported that piece of you that you're not willing to look at right now and that's okay. And it's this piece and they're like how did you know that I'm like because that's just you know the energy so hard to answer that question isn't it sometimes it is you're like I don't know you've got your grandma's here and she told me like it's just like Yeah I know they're like what like I don't and then I'm like oh how do I explain this in science like okay wait a minute like yeah yeah absolutely and you know so I had a client just the other day and I met her in a spiritual workshop and I was she's an amazing gal but um she was just having a lot of a lot of blocks she had some physical things you know she had a total knee replacement and just the little things you know in her body but she's had having some difficulties moving around this stuff but I also knew and understand that she's her son passed away she's got a lot of heaviness but as we went through the thing her whole body it's like she she really was congested down like the whole system was like if you could take it and just like like nothing was happening right in the vitality wise just not expressing itself like it needs to express itself like a whole what we call whole body you know vitality just is like down gone. Yeah and one of her complaints was long time depression anxiety um headaches like feels like just compressed in her head all the time and I started to really like the physical was there but then I was like what's going on with the energetic stuff like her whole upper chakra was outside of her body seemed to be like trying to shut down and I started to work with her a little bit this way and to connect with that and then her son showed up and then we started talking he was talking to me and I was just kind of going talking to her about it and how do you handle that when someone's loved one they're there for body work and someone's loved one shows up because that happens all the time it's a touchy subject for people that don't necessarily get it andor might be afraid of it. So this individual was not so it was perfect. Yeah so just holding some space on her crown like on her forehead and then on her heart she went through this whole unwinding okay around this piece around her son and and it was so beautiful to watch her do that and and for me I was just doing my thing and just allowing people you know my intuition to you know lead the whole show and as soon as it cleared we went back and started checking different things in the body and it's like oh that's interesting now it's like now you're showing me some true structural things that are actually stuck here. I'm like okay cool released a couple different things no problem it came back in and started balancing it with the energetic system. So she goes she calls me the next day and she felt great after it was it was good you know she did really really well yeah and and uh next day she goes to Pilates and she told me in the history taking that the Pilates she's has trouble with it like certain things your body just doesn't do it won't do. And she's trying to but it just won't let her do it. She goes to Pilates the next day and doesn't say anything and the instructor's like what happened you're like this is the bot this is the body I was waiting to show up and I've been trying to work with what and all of a sudden she's able to do all these different things and she was so amazed because it's like it was just so trapped down inside that it couldn't allow any kind of like how I call it is like the body can't like let go and stretch and do what it needs to do because it's like this. It's like two weeks inside it's like you know so yeah it's like you have to get it to like relax and you know a central nervous system brain spinal cord have to be able to just come out of fight and flight they have to go into the parent sympathetic tone.

SPEAKER_04:

She was just very very high sympathetic tone you know around this trauma you know so I can't imagine because I know losing the the thought of even losing one of my children is like I don't know how you come back from it. And also as a reluctant medium not someone who ever thought I would be considered a medium not happy about it when it came in I was pretty pissed um that it was even something I had to deal with I was like nobody's I didn't sign up for this garbage. I don't want to be talking to dead people like I was like whoopy Goldberg right when she anyways that was my experience mostly because the first time it happened I was with a plane and her husband came in but he like came in and I was like no I don't want to like what's happening and I didn't know how to put boundaries up with the spirit plane. Anyways um now when they come in I'll be like you can sit in the corner if I if I invite you to give me information you can but um only if uh invited otherwise I'll kick you out uh so behave anyways I think that um that it can also be the root cause of pain though if it's agreed um or if it's also I mean I don't like to say the word but kind of like um like a like an energy that's following you that doesn't belong to you. Unresolved trauma can follow you like that energetically and that's like where I do a lot of clearing work with entities and energy and things like that. But that that can impact your body's ability to heal and transform. So it's awesome.

SPEAKER_01:

Yep yeah absolutely it's uh it can be good energies and and bad energies you know it's they're out there so they don't just they don't discriminate from you.

SPEAKER_04:

They do not so it's just an aspect yeah we have to weed through those things clear them out best that we can and begin to become energy responsible again and know when we might be holding something and yeah I think because of a lot of empaths they I hear them online saying like oh I don't have any control I'm an impact I'm like you absolutely need to learn to control that because it's also going to be filtered through your own experience of life. So what you might be picking up might be wrong actually. So you need to make sure that if you are or identify as an empath that you take responsibility for that gift and that you learn how to manage energy um otherwise you will get sick and that's that's on you. It's your responsibility to make sure that you take care of your energy and um that's your responsibility as as an empath whether or not you want to or not like you just have to otherwise you you won't survive you'll get sick. Yeah being in control of your own empath yeah yeah yeah absolutely this was like the best conversation I'm like I already have 18 other um podcast ideas generated in my head while we were chatting I was like I'm like a manifesting generator and a seven so I would my like my seven was like oh my god we need to have a workshop on like how to connect with the love of your life like yeah there you go and do intuitive readings for people because we're so good at it. Yeah it'll be fun it'll be fun so oh it would be fun and it's a good way to get out of the um the the more like oh the academia of what we do it's it's uh it is actually kind of fun when you get to spend time just living in that like um energy of you know calling people soulmates and stuff anyways I will talk to you about that another time because but I appreciate too that you are that you are somebody so committed to excellence in everything that you do because I think that the world needs more physical therapists, coaches and and practitioners of all sorts because I just kind of all put us in the the world of healing and coaching. And that that you are so committed to that path of knowledge and excellence. And I've just seen it over the years since I've known you too um always expanding your knowledge and and in the kind of like I'll always say in the army of light like and that's how I kind of call practitioners is the army of light. At least that's how my guides always say it. It's like oh there's this army of light that is like here to help elevate people um in their lives and you know to bring them and return them back to love. And I know that you're part of that like warrior that warrior uh energy of returning people to to love basically because when you're in flow with your higher self that's love and not fear. So um I just appreciate your friendship and also your commitment to helping people because it feels nice when I send the client down to you like down in the Sacramento area and I'll be like oh no he's down he's down there he's but he does what I do but like probably better and like go see him down there. And um when that same client like came up and saw me she was like you guys work so similar it's so nice to have that congruency and care um between college and home anyway. So um did she come back? Yeah yeah no I've been treating her since she got home yeah awesome so and it was so nice she was like oh you talk just like him like you guys say the same things I'm like oh yeah that's good yeah because that's good saying the right thing so like but um so it was like also very nice to have that like uh yeah that consistency between messaging and and knowing that that's coming from that higher plane not ego not what we think it should be but having to translate it from source and then how do you say it to this person and get them where they need to go and I think that's the the biggest challenge being in this work.

SPEAKER_01:

But um you know I just I just want to end with one thing and I think does it it doesn't matter what kind of practitioner you are when you really come from a hard space and you really decide that you're doing work for the greatest good of this individual. And when you come from that place and you understand that you need to find the the real core of what's going on at the root of the issue um and that the person that's sitting in front of you is multidimensional. Once we can tap into that and start to understand that then people are going to shift beyond it doesn't matter what you're doing. Okay. When it's a pureness of love and light and you have the the individual um doing things for the greatest good of for that person think it doesn't matter you you could not literally not know anything what you're doing and just let things flow through you and it's going to happen. You know um I think it's really important to come from that place. And just try our best to because we you know as human nature we can be egoic but step out of the way and let your higher self work through through you know is the biggest thing and let it just fly because it's the the more I do that the more I just step out of the way and just let whatever has got to come in come in for this person.

SPEAKER_04:

It has nothing to do with me not about me bothering right yeah so that's the nicest part of it though isn't it it's not about you. You're and I hear that all of the time it's like it's it's not about you you are the conduit with which healing flows and it's not coming from you it's just passing through you and you're just the you're the vessel the person who did the knowledge the education or whatever and you're the one who's holding space for like I call it kind of Christ conscious healing to come through me not from me and I and I think that was how I learned not to get sick from healing people was because I no longer thought the energy had to come from me. I simply let it pass through me. And that to me was the first step in not getting energetically drained and not getting sick doing the type of work that we do. And I've seen a lot of practitioners where their energy it's coming from them and it's draining them and making them sick. And it's like if you could just connect into the light above your head there's like a light 300 feet above your head like your superconscious light and you just let that light flow through you and not from you. And uh I have a lot of stuff on like YouTube and stuff that I that I share with people to teach them how to do that. But I think that that would be number one is just don't make it your energy let it just let it flow. Yeah let it go and let it flow. I love that oh I'm so grateful for you. I'm gonna post some contact information for Jason um and I am going to help him build a new website so people can find him online. And um thank you so much for being you yeah look forward to our next little shindig where we oh I have like 18 like I said I already wrote them all out in the field they're gonna be coming in later so I'll probably telepathically you already got the download or evil in your sleep tonight you'll you'll see my face and I'll be like so I have a clipboard and I've got all of our episodes outlined at least gosh yeah let that number seven wear off of me a little bit you have a direct line to it. I know I do totally all right I'm super grateful for you and thank you.

SPEAKER_01:

And do you have any parting words of wisdom or anything for our I would say well I would say that if from listening to this if people don't still kind of understand they want to know more about energy words go go do it because it's an aspect of who we are go learn some stuff and begin to understand um what it's about and being able to shift things because we easily can shift stuff you know um do the own work on ourselves and don't necessarily have to go to somebody else but you can get some training in it and all that kind of stuff. But um but yeah we we are able and capable to do it ourselves.

SPEAKER_04:

So absolutely just do it thank you and um I'm gonna uh um thanks Jason again and I like I said I'll post some of his contact information if you're interested in working with him. Take care.

unknown:

Bye

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Tabitha MacDonald

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